Back in 2006 we did a feature on Tim for Slam Wrestling. We spoke about his career in Toronto as a local fan turned wrestler at the height of the exciting Mid-Atlantic era.
He later answered questions on the KM message board on a wide variety of subjects which have been compiled here.
The questions were posed by fans (names redacted) and in a few cases paraphrased. Note the answers are from several years ago when discussing 'current' wrestling.
Tim went from wrestling animal types to working with them.
Tim Girouard Behaviour Therapist/Master Trainer
-AC
The questions were posed by fans (names redacted) and in a few cases paraphrased
PART 1
Q-When, where, &
how did you get started in the business?
It’s a weird story about that.
Back a number of years ago, the CNE in
Toronto was having their 100 year anniversary and they had a 'throwback'
midway, old time things.
One was a Tough
guy competition; basically "folks' from the crowd could come and
'challenge' the tough guy.
the 'guys
challenging were set ups for the show. My dad, sister and I were there and the
tough guy was a local Hamilton guy Bill Armstrong.
Dewey Robertson was actually running it.
After the 'show' we spoke with Dewey and he
said he ran a wrestling school at his gym in Burlington. Fast forward say perhaps 10 years and I'm in
my 3 year of university at U of T, and before an exam, I grabbed a coffee and a
Toronto Sun and in a small box in the sports section, was an ad, 'Want to be a
wrestler?' I knew I wanted to try. I didn't have the $1000 to do it so I had to borrow 1/2
the money from my parents but they made me finish the exams (I didn't want to
). Dewey said later that it was the only day he put the ad in the Sun and I
took this as a sign.
I went out there in
May, paid and away we went. I was on
Television late August or early September at the Germania club in
Hamilton. I trained with 4 other guys,
Big John Orleck, another fellow from Oakville who didn't last, and two fellows from
Wallaceburg, Rick Bolton, and a 450lb fellow I remember as Kenny. He wore overalls.
We trained 3 nights a week at Dewey’s gym on Plains Rd and
worked on the mat (yes a mat not a ring) with two local boys, Claude Dion and
Bill Armstrong (yes that Bill Armstrong). The fellow who dropped out whose name
I don't remember, could not 'sell'. He
needed to feel some pain, when he was hit, he just couldn't wrap his head
around the fact that we weren't hurting each other. He was a guy with natural
strength, and a decent physique. John
Orleck weighed about 380 lbs, Big Kenny as we called he, weighed as I said 450,
so Rick Bolton and I took most of the backdrops and hip tosses.
Rick Bolton, had broken his arm earlier in
life and his left arm he could make look like it was broken when he
straightened it out. George Steele took
him to New York TV not long after so when George put the standing hammerlock on
Rick, Rick submitted and when George would drop him to the canvas, Rick would
position his arm in such a way to look like it was broken so Vince McMahon
doing the commentary could sell that George broke the guys arm. It really got George over.
My *first match was at the Germania club in Hamilton (on King
Street). Big Mac and I vs Jimmy
Snuka. When it came time to discuss the
finish, Claude Dion, who was there, spoke up for me and told Jimmy that I was
'okay'. This is how it was years
ago. Someone would vouch for your
talent. This is where Big Mac knocked himself out landing w his butt on Snuka's
bicep, doing a leg drop and snapped his head back, hitting the canvas. I saw Mac just staring into the lights, I
might have even seen a few small birds floating around his head,. The finish was to be on me, I don't remember
what, but Jimmy say that Mac was out cold, just picked up the limp dead weight
Mac, slammed him as best he could and covered him. I still rib Mac that I can say I wasn't
pinned in my first match.
This is also
where the Charlotte guys were just starting to come in to TO and I was still
green, a bit of a mark, and when the guys came in the back door to the basement
of the Germania club where we all dressed in a big banquet room, I asked Dewey
who was there, "Is this how it is?" and I remember him saying,
"Keep your mouth shut and your eyes open!!" This is how the learning went in those
days. Much was unspoken. And I was on my way.......
*79/08/23 Germania Club, Hamilton, TV Taping
Jimmy Snuka W Big Mac / Tim Gerrard
Jimmy Snuka W Tim Gerrard
Q-Towards the end of
the NWA in Toronto Tunney was obviously having trouble booking talent, any
thoughts on why he never booked The Destroyer, Tiger Jeet Singh as both were
legends. I asked The Destroyer the same question at the fan fest earlier this
year in Toronto and he had no idea.
To answer this question you have to understand that the
Tunney's didn't 'book talent'. They
always left the booking to others, like the Sheik so you get a lot of Detroit
guys in the 70's. When business went down, they
changed the territory they would align with, like going with Verne for a
while. Again, Verne booked all the
talent here. All the Tunney's would do
is fill the card with local boys (myself, the Marcus Brothers, Nick Decarlo, and Tony Parisi as it was his ring that was used for TV, John Bonello, etc ) When Frank died, Jack just kept up. He continued with Charlotte until it started
to drop. When Frank passed, Jack took over and I know from hearing comments that
he wasn't as well respected among the older boys.
Q-What are your
thoughts on Crazy Chris Colt during his run with Dave?
I liked Chris a lot. Like most guys he was very nice. And he took hellacious bumps and sold his brains out. It was in taking one of these big bumps that caused him to cut some tendons in his palm when Phil Watson hit him with a garbage can. There was a broken bottle in there and when Chris went down, his hand hit the bottle and he was out for a couple of months. This is where Phil talked Dave into he and I working under a hood with Chris as my manager so Chris could still get the heat as he was advertised. I worked Belleville (*where the Sheik threatened to stab me with scissors in the dressing room) Kingston, and twice in Scarborough.
*That story is in section II
Tim as Assassin with Chris Colt vs Whipper Jr Scarboro 1982
Q-Do you feel Toronto
could have been a viable city for wrestling had Tunney not joined the WWF?
Could he have booked talent from Memphis, World Class, AWA etc and made a run
of it?
NO
Q-Do you agree with Bobby
Heenan's assessment from a few years ago that wrestling is dying and cannot
come back? Can the fans be retaught after giving away all of the secrets?
Wrestling used to be an art form. Toying and playing with people's
emotions. Getting people so riled up
that they literally wanted to hurt or see hurt the heels. When I was a fan, I saw people hyper-ventilate, their adrenaline was so high.
Bobby is right. Once you see
behind the curtain, the magic is gone.
John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio.
Horse ---t. It’s all gymnastics
now, jumping, flipping, hopping. Not
making people believe. I've seen some
ungodly moves lately and the guy gets up like he's getting out of bed. Either the guys are super human now, or the
moves are so weak. An abdominal stretch
could win a match before, Now the finish
is so many spots that they have to get in the ring and practice during the
day. Not my cup of tea anymore.
Q- So towards the end
of Maple Leaf Wrestling Johnny Weaver was booking The Grapplers from Central
States, Brian Adidas from Texas, Pez Whately from Georgia, Cormiers from the
Martimes ? etc.
Other than the Cormiers, the guys they sent up here were all
working for a time in Charlotte. Pez
Whatley especially. Some of them
weren’t there long as Charlotte had a competitive territory and lots of
guys. Toronto was used sometimes as a
stopover for guys. Abby and Dory Funk
worked MLG as they were coming through Toronto anyway and they could pick up a
payday. Only large events, like the
Cadillac tournament would book some guys from other territories as it would
give the event some gravitas. Johnny
booked the Cormiers, Leo, Terry and Rudy as he was friends with them from when
he worked in the Maritimes each summer.
Think of Brian Adidas, The Grapplers, Pez Whatley, not exactly top shelf
names. Towards the end they were using
whomever they could get.
Q-I remember going to
plenty of MLG shows where guys did not show up, as a kid I always thought that
the no shows were done intentionally. My
question is when you were there and guys no showed was it legit?
 |
| Famous no show! Piper vs Von Hess |
No shows were no shows.
Guys didn't or couldn't make it.
I recall the incident with Buzz Sawyer and he showed up at the airport
in, shorts, a tank top, shower shoes, no ID and they wouldn't let him
board. Gene Anderson by that time had
hurt his neck, you might remember him flicking his head like a twitch so he was
basically forced to reduce his in ring activities and this is where he became
more of a manager for guys to help get them over. Gene actually worked in the office in
Charlotte and during a match, Gene would walk out and when he put the pencil
behind his ear, it was time to 'go home'.
The ref would watch and tell the guys to 'go home'. Guys did get hurt and perhaps the Briscos
were on their way out and didn't want to come to TO. Kurt was a solid talent who could be depended
upon to have a good match with anyone and that is a testament to his ability. Same
with Dick Beyer.
Q-Tim what did you
think of the Kays main eventing at this stage of their careers in Toronto?
Personally I thought they should have been positioned in the lower half of the
card.
I thought Burke had some good matches with Piper and
Santana, however they were not stars at this stage of the game. Rudy and Terry were solid workers. Unfortunately they didn't have the charisma
to put asses in the seats. Recall Terry
would have a guitar with him during interviews.
In the Maritimes, they could play on their Maritime heritage to help get
them over as 'local heroes.' Leo was always a solid heel.
He could work and be just sneaky enough to get heat without being over
the top. He was more of an 'intellectual
heel' ala Nick Bockwinkel, the arrogance.
I liked Leo, great Maritimer. As
I said before, he and his brothers were great friends with Johnny Weaver so
they were used here a lot. One must
never discount the booking of friends.
Once you became friends w people, you knew they could work and be
depended upon and give good matches.
Q-What were some of
your favorite matches?
One that always sticks in my mind is w Tarzan Tyler on TV,
from Brantford. Tarzan was a relatively
larger man, over 300lbs. When we went through the finish in the dressing room,
he, being the heel, said when he says go home, stop him, get over, pick him up
and slam him, and in my head I went, "PICK YOU UP AND SLAM YOU
??" I didn't want him to think I
would question my ability to get him up but I did. So the match went on and I hear 'go
home'. So, I reverse a turnbuckle
throw,. and I'm thinking, "I’ve got to pick him up, so here goes!" And he was such a veteran, that I'm starting
to bend over to pick him up and it seemed all of a sudden he's on my shoulders.
I remember thinking, "Holy S- - t"
He went up like a feather. I
slammed him and we went home.
I also liked working with Mosca as he would help and lead
you through the match. I remember a TV match where we're getting instructions
and he said, "Jump me from behind'.
So instructions over, he turned his back and I attacked him from behind
as he walked to his corner. I got some
shots in and he turned me around and started to punch me, After the second or third punch, and after
each punch after that I hear 'Take a Walk', another punch, 'Take a walk',
another punch, 'Take a walk' and I finally realized that he was telling me to
get out of there, so I did. I also
remember my first match w Angelo and the finish was a sleeper. I had never take a sleeper before so when he
put it on, I flailed like you're supposed to, and I'm taller than Angelo so I
hear whispered in my ear, 'Sit on my knee". He positioned himself so his left leg was in
front of his right and I could just lean back and basically sit on his knee.
House shows were different than TV as in house shows, you were there to
entertain people, on TV, you were there to put someone over.
I remember working with Andre, a handicap
match with John Forsythe (there's a name only real fans will remember). Andre was doing basic 'strong man s- -
t" as we called it;. Double top
wristlock, he throws us off, pull his arms apart and he bangs us into each
other. The finish was he head-butts me,
I take a bump out to the floor, which I did, and I'm sitting on the floor
beside the ring and I hear 2 maybe 3 big bumps, the bell and it was over.
 |
| Stevens vs Parisi MLG 1982 |
I also loved to work with Tony Parisi. We used the same finish wherever we went. I
remember working in Rochester with him, and in Rochester for the then WWWF or
New York as we called it, they put the main event on about 4th, some other
matches on after and ended with a nothing match. That was Tony and I. I remember going to the ring and people were
leaving to go home. We stood in the
ring, getting instructions, Tony looked at me and said, "Screw it', let’s
just go home". Which we did. Match
was real short.
I also liked working, which I only did once in Buffalo, with Ray
Stevens. He was sooooo light
a worker. You barely knew he was there yet
you thought he was killing you. That is
the mark of a great worker.
Swede Hanson and I worked Buffalo once and Swede had just
switched in Charlotte to a baby face.
We're standing getting instructions and as the ref is going through the
motions they did, spouting the gibberish they did, Swede looked at the ref,
then at me and said with a straight face, "Aren't I the ugliest looking
baby face you've ever seen in your life?"
Both the ref and I started to crack up and had to hide our faces.Swede was funny.
Again, real pro, worked light, don't recall if he chopped me or
not....his knee drops were light, guys that were real pros could make it look
authentic, painful but barely nothing.
That was the 'art' of wrestling.
*83/06/29 Buffalo, NY
Swede Hanson W Tim Gerrard
WWF Title Bob Backlund vs Sgt. Slaughter in the main
Re: Buffalo… my first time in, there were not fans there yet
and I walked out to see the arena as was blown away by it's size, and the
colour of the seats. Very, very
colorful. As well, for anyone who's
been there, their tiers went up, not back like MLG so you got the impression of
people being right on top of you. My
first time out, as I left the dressing room to go to the ring, 4 police w guns
surrounded me to walk to the ring....I felt very brave
 |
| Tim and the others are in the etc. part |
*My first Gardens match, vs Klondike Bill sticks in my mind
as Bill found out I was new, my first big house show (it was the night of a Mulligan/Studd
street fight match so there were probably 12,000 people or more) and he said to
me, don't worry, just listen to me. I
had the opportunity to work with many, many great workers, the bigger they
were, the nicer they were I found.
*80/03/09 Toronto Maple Leaf Gardens
Canadian Title: Dewey Robertson WDQ Greg Valentine
Jay Youngblood W Ray Stevens
Texas Death Match: Blackjack Mulligan W John Studd
Blue Demon/Destroyer W Pedro Morales/Don Kernodle
Klondike Bill W Tim Gerrard
Bob Marcus WP Bill White
Q- On Tarzan Tyler
being picked as Mosca’s ‘Mystery Opponent’ in 1982
Here's my thoughts from the time. If you recall, Mosca
had worked with most of the Charlotte boys, some numerous times, and beat them
and retained the title. The Cdn Title to Charlotte really meant nothing.
It wasn't in Charlotte so it was localized for Canada. Mosca was a
big guy so they wanted big guys, and Canadian to boot, to work with Mosca.
Think of why they suddenly used Kiniski for a few shots. He was on
the downside of his career, but still a big enough name to draw. Tyler
was like Kiniski, without the name recognition so he would draw.
Wrestling always needed an 'angle' especially for continuity.
Easiest way to bring in Tyler, was to 'link' him to someone people knew
(Studd) and have the surprise factor.
 |
| Mosca vs Tyler 1982 |
If you think about it, Montreal guys worked a bunch of
Toronto cards, Louis Laurence was here for 3 or 4 shots, including TV.
Other Montreal guys as well.
Wrestling is always about 'new' guys.
My guess is that somebody in the Toronto office, knew about Tyler, got
contacted or contacted them and this 'angle' was born. Although Charlotte
provided the booker, (towards the end it was Weaver) Frank and Jack booked all
the local talent. The booker just figured out how to use them. When
they ran out of guys for Mosca to beat, they stuck the strap on Iron Sheik as
he was later called. That's my opinion, based upon being there. As for Tyler, think of him as sort of a big punching bag for
Mosca. Big guy but not a threat really. As for Tarzan as a person,
he was the nicest guy, the most generous worker
*Great perspective. For me that was one of the biggest fails of the era.
Q-Did you ever get
the option to come down South & wrestle, or was that never something that
you wanted to do. In other words, were you happy working up north?
I worked Charlotte for a
short time. What I didn't really
like is the motel rooms and the travel.
Wrestling was great, but long trips etc, staying in motels, the money
wasn't great, livable, but not great so I was not too enticed to stay. I could have worked for Charlotte if I wanted
to.
 |
| vs Valentino in Charlotte, NC 1983 |
Q- What years were
you in the business, & when did you get out of it?
Got in August of 79 and out early 85. *My last match was tagging with Jerry Valiant
vs The Wild Samoans for TV when WWF first was coming into Toronto. I also worked with Gama Singh that
night. I worked just before that some
western NY shows for WWWF. That’s where
I heard Backlund was going to drop the strap to Iron Sheik who was then going
to drop it to Hogan.
* 84/07/10 Brantford, Civic Center TV Taping
Rocky Johnson W Tim Gerrard
Gama Singh W Tim Gerrard with the sleeper
The Wild Samoans W Jerry Valiant & Tim Gerrard . Afa pinned Gerrard with the Samoan Drop
Bob Marcus and Nick DeCarlo also on this one.
The first WWF card was held at MLG on July 22
Q- I always heard
that Mosca was quite stiff, any truth to that?
Mosca could be stiff.
If he didn't respect you, or you were stiff first, if you potatoed him,
he could work stiff.
Q- I also heard that Mulligan was tough and
stiff as well - again, any truth?
I worked with Bob once, *on TV of course and he was
light. You must understand that on TV
you would have to 'lay them in' to make it appear more authentic. Laying in and
working 'stiff' are two different things.
In house shows, you could lighten up.
*80/02/11 Brantford, Ontario T.V. Taping
Blackjack Mulligan W Frank Marconi & Tim Gerrard in a handicap match
Blackjack Mulligan/Dewey Robertson W Brute Bernard/Tim Gerrard
Dewey Robertson W Earl Pinnock & Tim Gerrard in a handicap match
Tim not having luck with any of his partners !
Q- I never knew you
worked with Andre - what were your experiences.
Also if you have any good Andre stories from that time.
He was always reasonable with me, with him, in and out of
the ring. Andre never tried to take advantage of the local guys. He knew they
had jobs and places to go so his goal was to 'showcase' himself, not hurt
anyone. I've got one story about Andres,
and my apologies to anyone whom I mentioned this to, at the Buffalo Hilton,
before a show at the Aud, Andre was sitting eating with Jack Tunney and Norm
Kimber. I noticed that Andre had what I
thought were 4 bottle of pop. I was
eating with Masked Superstar, Bill Eadie and a couple of others. Later in the dressing room I mentioned to
Norm Kimber that Andre must really like pop having drank so many before a match
and Norm said it wasn't pop, it was wine.
Andre's hand was so big it made a wine bottle look like a pop
bottle. And 4 bottles before
dinner. Norm told me neither he or Jack
drank.
Q- Did you have a lot
of interaction with the TV announcers (Billy Red & John McGilvery)? What was John like, and have you any idea
what he is doing now? Also Thoughts
about Norm Kimber?
Billy was a real character and really liked by all the boys.
He had been in the business a long time and had lots of connections, and knew a
lot of folks. He had this ability to
take his hand, put is to his mouth between the thumb and first finger, that
soft piece of skin, blow hard and make the sound of the loudest, wet fart
you've ever heard. HE would go behind
guys sometimes and do it a make them jump.
He had another phrase that I remember, “Dropping some mud". If you asked where someone was, Billy
wouldn't say in the can, he'd say 'he's dropping some mud". Billy had a dedication to the business and
he'd put guys over, even the mid or low carders.
 |
| Haley Race & John McGilvery |
John McGilvery wasn't around long. I think he was probably a radio guy, they
tried that awhile, remember Jason Roberts. John would know enough to just stand there and hold the mike. He never or wasn't allowed to come in the
dressing room. I remember they canned Jason Roberts because the guys were
saying that he's knocking the business.
He didn’t treat it with the respect it needed to get over. He kind of did things 'tongue in cheek', sort
of a 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink' kind of approach. He wasn't putting the guys over.
*McGilvery was a sports radio announcer on CJCL-AM in Toronto now The Fan as well as other stations around the Toronto-Hamilton area...
Norm Kimber was a real nice guy. He was in charge of the promotional material.
He put the ads in the various papers and he would phone in the results after
each MLG show to the Toronto Star for
the paper the next day. He also was the
ring announcers and as I've said before, didn't want anyone to jump up and down
in the ring while he’s announcing as it would cause him to bounce. Funny thing is that he lived about 5 minutes
from where I grew up in Mississauga. I
played hockey against one of his sons and I knew of his daughters. When I got out of the business I lost track
of Norm until one Sunday afternoon, after a mixed slo pitch game for a team I
was on, we went back to our sponsors bar for some adult beverages. The bar was close to where Norm lived. Lo and behold, I enter and there’s' Norm. we talk for a while and I remember he sounded
a bit bitter as when Vince came in, if you recall the ring announcer changed to
a younger guy, Jack became WWF 'President' and Norm's remark to me that I
remember is he said Jack as WWF President.
WWF, you know what that stand for when it comes to Jack Tunney, 'Worlds
Worst F - - k". *He sounded
bitter.
*Norm had started in the office around 1948-49 and spent almost 40 years there. He was fired unceremoniously in 1986 and worked briefly for Angelo Mosca's Pro Wrestling Canada. He later said he was let go with no explanation or remuneration.
 |
| Norm is not enjoying the bounce. MLG 1982 |
Q- John Orleck and
John Forsythe? (Maple Leaf TV regulars)
Forsythe lived in an apartment on Jarvis. He kept to himself. I remember he took 'floppy' bumps. Always looked like he was out of control. Not
the most classic bump taker.
John Orleck, as I say trained with me at Dewey's. He, if I recall correctly, only worked for
the Tunney's once, on TV where Mac and I got him the gig. He would take those hellacious trips to
Montreal to work for George Cannon. The incident I remember the most is when in
Kitchener, (I apologize to those who know this story) they put him in with
Mosca, 1st tape, 1st match. Mac and I
told him that if Mosca hits him, Jacks big, 380lbs, don’t go down right
away. Well, John took that a whole
other way and the first time Angelo gave him a forearm on the ropes, Angelo
stepped back, John Stood up and flexed in the classic arms up pose. Both Mac and I were watching from the hallway
and we both gasped as we knew nothing good would come. We never thought he would do the, 'hit me
harder' pose. Mosca was Canadian champ at the time,.
Angelo proceeded to beat the crap out of him. No working here. He banged John's head into the top turnbuckle,
John slumped to the second, Angelo banged his head into that one and dragged
him by the back of the hair, while John was on his knees trying to keep up,
across the ring to bang his head into the middle turnbuckle on that side. It
was not a pleasant sight. I always
thought that John, or Big Jack, as his friends called him, was a bit
intimidated by working for the Tunneys.
Angelo told Jack when the match was over to never air the match and if
he did, Angelo would quit. The match
never aired, they put some other taped match in its place. John never worked
for the Tunney's again. The unfortunate
thing about John is he never was real athletic so he had trouble controlling
his weight and things when working. When
working, the first thing you're taught is you control your body, you protect
your body , making sure you bump properly.
Bumps should always be taken when you are 'in control'; You depend on the other guy, but you make
sure you land flat.
Q- Did you prefer to
work single matches, or tag bouts? Favorite partners or opponents?
 |
| Assassin 1982 |
I preferred to get paid.
I didn't care where or who basically, I just wanted to make some
money. There were guys who didn't have
the rep I did so they would work small, small, small shows just to work and the
payoff might have been $10 or so. AS for
singles or tags, I got paid by the bout, didn't matter if it was 4 guys (a tag
match) or 2 guys (a single match). money was the same. On TV we'd get $25 per tape we were on so if
it was a single, you would have to do all the 1/2 the work a tag meant you did
1/4 the work, for the same money. I
liked to work with Parisi a lot as we knew each other and he trusted me and as
I said, the finish was the same. I liked
Rocky Johnson as he gave and was light.
There really wasn't anyone I didn't like to work with as the business
was a fraternity that once you got out there, everyone worked together. The only one that wasn't great to work with
was Nick Bockwinkle as he worked real 'tight' and didn't give virtually
anything. I was told after that this was
because he was champion and wanted to make sure, since he didn't know me, that
I wasn't going to try to embarrass him or do something stupid. I understand the rationale.
*Big bout for Tim! Hope this one shows up eventually
Q- You vs Jimmy
Valiant in the 1982 Cadillac Tournament.
I think that was your first match with Valiant. How was he and how did you feel about the 20
or so second match? Also Adonis &
Ventura came in for this and they were WWF guys at the time. What were they like and how did the Mid
Atlantic guys feel about working WWF guys?
 |
| Easy payday! 1982 |
As I said previously, I got paid by the 'job' (what a
pun). Not by the hour. The night of the tournament, there were 8
first round matches, most didn't go that long.
If the first round was 8 matches, the second was 4, the third would be
2, the last round 1, there would have been 15 matches. If they all went 10
minutes, it would have been 2 1/2 hours of wrestling without any
intermissions. Too long. That is why there were some that got byes,
some that both were counted out to shorten the evening. The night of the match,
George Scott came to me and said I'm working with Valiant and they only had a
minute on the TV tape so that's all we could go. No problem for me. I spoke w Jimmy, he said, get some heat,
he'll stop me and we'll go home. Easiest
money of my life, $250 if I recall.
The most I made for the least amount of time in the ring. I'd do it every night if I could. One thing to understand to fully understand,
is that among the boys there was no competition as to one territory vs
another. It would be like someone at
Ford disliking someone working at Chrysler.
To the boys, it was such a brotherhood, such a closed society, that even
today, years later, the bond / camaraderie is still there.
When big 'tournaments' would happen, it appears to be
'bigger' if guys from other territories came in to try to win. And in those days, the promoters weren't foes, they were allies, allies so they could
keep the boys under control. if you got
a bad rep in one territory, they could keep you out of another territory unless
another promoter 'went rogue'/ I can't
stress enough, the wrestling business in those days was such a closed,
fraternal group, that's why even to get in needed you to be trained by a
wrestler or someone had to 'speak' for you to tell the group that you were
'okay'. Watch Donny Brasco, the movie,
watch Dustin Hoffmans character w Johnny Depp, when Dustin says, 'I’ll speak
for you, you're with me", that is
the kind of closed society wrestling was.
Remember there were secrets to be kept. Secrets that if they got out,
would diminish the money you made. So
the secrets were kept tight. Think of
how fast you would have wanted to spend money if you knew the Sheik was a guy
from Detroit, or Abdullah the Butcher was from Chatham, or "Killer' Kowalski was a tee
totaling, vegan from Boston, or German, Kurt Von Hess and Karl Von Shotz were
Bill Terry and John Anson from Hamilton.
IT goes on and on. You paid money
for the illusion, the suspension of belief for that time. That's what's missing today, the suspension
of belief. The emotion. Sorry for
getting off on a rant.
Q- Austin Idol came
in for the tournament, which I think was his first time in Toronto. Did you talk with him and what was he
like? Also was he in fact afraid to fly?
Can't answer to the flying thing. I think he had his own mind and did what he
wanted, when he wanted. There were guys
like that in the business and therefore they didn't stay too long in one
territory.
*Can't answer re; fear of flying either but Idol was injured in the plane crash that killed Bobby Shane in 1975
Q- You & Alec
Girard vs Valiant & Terry Kay.
Again, thoughts on this match and Valiant? Also a strange pairing of Kay & Valiant,
any comments?
I like Jimmy and I know he liked me. He liked the bumps and selling I could do
that would make him look real good as I was as big or perhaps even a bit taller
than him. Alec had his own style. Sort of bouncy, jumpy. He was tough though. The idea of TV in those days was to showcase
the top or upper talent. That is why so
many pairings would take place. It was
easier to get 2 guys face time on TV in a tag that all singles.
Q- Did you work on
the shows at Dewey's gym? Was Chris Tolos as nice a guy as I've heard he was?
Did you ever go to Martin's Steakhouse on Barton?
I never worked any shows at Dewey's as he had moved his gym
to plains rd from his other location (which I don't even know where it was) and
there was not even room for a ring in it. That's why I learned on a mat. I only saw Chris Tolos once when he stopped
by, he was a quiet unassuming man. Never
went to any *restaurants in Hamilton.
Before my time. I started ‘79 and
what you refer to I think was in the '70's.
*Martins Steakhouse was owned by area wrestler Martin Hutzler and had been a gathering place for wrestlers from the 1940s-1970s
Q- Tim, any Roddy
Piper stories?
Piper was a hoot. He
was a wild guy, loved to have fun. The
one story that always sticks in my mind is the night we were in Niagara Falls,
and a couple of female fans were outside the heel dressing room and you could
hear them, every time someone entered or left the room, in higher pitched female voices, "OOOOH,
Roddy Piper, where's Roddy Piper??'" Over and over. It became quite
annoying.. Piper was sitting at the end
of the dressing room, a hockey dressing room, behind the door so you couldn't
see him. Finally after time after time
after time after time of this whaling outside, he got pissed and said, 'F - -
k, them, they want Piper, I'll shut them up!" He proceeded to pull his tights down to his
knees exposing himself fully. He went
down, opened the door from behind and suddenly stepped into view, saying,
'"Whatta ya want?" They started to get excited, after all Roddy Piper
was standing in front of them but suddenly they realized that he was exposed to
them. They started to say things like,
"OH that's disgusting.." and
Piper started to curse them out telling then to leave him the F - - k alone and
get the hell out of there. Everyone in
the dressing room was killing themselves, especially the ones that could see
their faces, but it was quiet after that.
I had to work with Piper once, in Guelph, as Big Mac and
Dark Angel were late. It was the first
match, first tape and you were to be there an hour before show time but they
got there 10 - 15 minutes. George Scott
asked me if I would work with Piper, who for getting dressed I was sitting
beside, and I had no problem Asked
Piper what the finish was, he said a sleeper.
He said that he had to play his bagpipes to get 'heat' before the
match. We were to go 5 minutes and I
said to Roddy, 'I've got to work 3 other tapes tonight so if you want to play
then for 4 1/2 minutes and then go home, it's fine with me." He laughed.
I then had to sneak out of the heel room, and if you don't know the old
Guelph Auditorium, the fans walked right by the dressing room as they entered
to get to their seats. I put a towel
over my head and hurried to the baby face room so I could come out from the
baby face side. Match went like a charm.
Q- How long were you
a fan, did you go to a lot of shows at MLG - as a fan who were your favorites,
did you ever wrestle any of them later on
I first got interested in Wrestling back when Dusty Rhodes
and Dick Murdoch were the Outlaws around here.
Watched religiously every Saturday and went to MLG on Special
Occasions. Not every show, when
something big was to go on, usually 3-4 times a year, especially the big Boxing
day cards. I saw a lot of guys but never
really had any favorites. I later met a
lot of the guys I watched, Kurt Von Hess, Sweet Daddy Siki, Haystacks Calhoun
(worked w him on TV in Detroit for the Sheik)
and oh year, The Sheik. The only
one if I could say was a favorite was Dusty Rhodes, during the American Dream
phase. My family would go to Florida
and we would make sure that we got to Tampa by Tuesday so we could go to the
Fort Homer W Hesterly Armoury for the wrestling. If you can remember the Hulk Hogan hysteria
when he appeared on a show, Dusty created the same hysteria in this
Armoury. He could have a 10 minute,
Lights out Match, Bunkhouse Match, Bull Rope Match and people would be stomping,
screaming just like when Hogan makes his comeback.
Q- After you stopped
wrestling did you go to any WWF shows or Wildman shows - again as a fan, what
did you think of it if......and do you have any contact now with any of the
wrestlers from the day
I left the business in early 85 and that was it for me. I
would still watch every now and then but no chance of going to ta show. By the later 80's Dave was already winding
down a bit also. Competition was big.
Then his passing happened and it really wound down. Feb 4th 1990 I attended my first show since I
left. I know the date because I got
married on Feb 3 1990 and my Brother In law and nephew from up north were here
and had to go the wrestling matches.
They even paid a scalper and the tickets were in the end above the
glass. I remember watching the fans,
taking in the 'craziness' that was going on.
The wrestling wasn't interesting, As I 'got it' and it wasn't out yet so
I knew it was a work. I even watched Jose
Luis Rivera work under the hood as the Conquistador and then after the intermission
as himself. I never attended another show until I heard a local guy a here in
Guelph, Jeff Black, was running a show a few years ago. From the Titans in Toronto Dinners I was able
to stay in touch with Mac and he told me he was running shows, renting his ring
etc. I went to check out this show on a
Sunday afternoon, went around the back and they were finishing putting up the
ring, asked one of the guys whose ring this is, was told 'Big Mac' and it
turned out to be Mac's son Victor who I met years ago when he was much
smaller. Went in and Mac and I drank
beer, talked about the old days and watched the show. It was so much different. I understand that today there is no place for
guys to learn, as there are not shows all the time but I watched two guys go
over their match, in the ring, even suplexing while the fans are around. My head near exploded. I have since attended a couple of local
shows, for PWA from Kitchener.
Q- How about Nick
DeCarlo and Bobby Bass?
 |
| BRL with Bobby Bass 1983 |
Nick DeCarlo had to have been the most laid back person I
have met to this day. Nothing rattled
him, even keel all the time, with a real deep voice. Bobby Bass was the opposite. Real Nice guy, but a talker. Quick Nick story. We're going to Rochester to work for the
WWF together. To know Nick you knew
that he dressed impeccably. Leather coat
open, shirt, collar outside the coat, shirt opened to expose his chains. We get to the Buffalo Border and I show my
ID, fine. Nick pulls out an Italian
Birth Certificate as ID. Nick looks like
a casting out of the Sopranos and I'm thinking we're here a while. Sent to secondary inspection and when they
opened the trunk they say our bags and asked what they were and Nick said we
were just working out and going across to have dinner. They're welcome to look through the wet
workout clothes. We make it
through. As we're driving down the
Expressway to Rochester, which is an hour from Buffalo, Nick tells me to look
in the ash tray and there's a doob of weed. Enough for a few puffs. He asks
if in want to and I say sure. He says to
me, 'Don't you dare lay around tonight like a lazy slug in the ring" I
told him I wouldn't. I didn’t' and we
had a great match. (I think)
Q- Also, any opinions
on the Marcus Brothers? Bob had a good run at Maple Leaf Gardens but once the
WWF came on guys like him, Joe and Nick De Carlo got destroyed regularly. In
another era Bob & Joe may have had a longer career.
Bob would get put over guys in Toronto because he worked in
Charlotte for a time. Joe stayed close
to home. Bob came back because poor
money, long trips and he realized it wasn't for him. Joe never left. When New York took over they used some local
guys for a time but then phased them out and took their crews everywhere so the
Marcus brothers, Nick Decarlo, Bobby Bass, slowly were forced into retirement
Q- They had a MLG
show on June 29, 1980 which was broadcast in its entirety on Japan TV . Were you at that show? Did you get to meet Baba & Jumbo, and
Brody?
I vaguely recall *Baba working a show in Toronto. Perhaps it was a tag. As I said before, guys would book a shot in
Toronto if they could as they could make some money on their way to
elsewhere. Brody was a hoot. I spent a week w him on the Trinidad tour I
was on and a nicer guy you couldn't meet.
180 degree opposite from his gimmick.
I might tell you my Bruiser Brody in Trinidad story sometime.
*Baba returned for the first time since 1964 to tag with Tsuruta vs Brody & Irwin Jun 29 1980
Brody story below
Q- At the above show,
Jim Crockett was there, and Frank Tunney read a proclamation - did you get to
meet Jim Crockett? Did he ever attend
other shows?
I met Jimmy Crockett many times in Toronto. Got to the point he recognized me and would
say Hi first. If you didn't know he was
the promoter you wouldn't know he was the promoter. He always had good bookers working for him,
Ole Anderson, Dory Funk Jr, Dusty etc...He relied on wresting bookers who were
the ones who made the territory profitable or not in those day.
Q- After John
McGilvary left, a new guy came on to do the TV with Billy...Mike McMann. ...any thoughts
& memories of him?
Unfortunately, never met him. They would tape the few interviews they did,
in a corner of the rink with the 2 piece background behind before the
matches. This would allow the guys like
the Kay's to talk, and other local guys.
The Charlotte guys did all their promos in Charlotte for ALL THE TOWNS
they were working.
Q- In the last post you said you might tell a Brody story. Well this is a request for it
please.
I met on my Trinidad
tour for Tiger Jeet Singh and *Fazil Dean.
Tiger and Brody knew each other from Japan. Frank was this big wild looking guy with the
way out hair but quiet and soft spoken for real. In Trinidad I, managed to secure some local
‘herb’ from a restaurant owner. 3 big
large, round ones. I got so drunk on
“Old Oak’ Rum, 100 proof, that at 1 am after drinking since 10am in the
morning, in a hotel room with Parisi, Hess,
Danny Johnson and I can’t remember who else, after much prodding from
those guys, I allowed my head to be shaved bald. I would only let Hess do it as I thought if
anyone would do a safe job and if anyone knew what they were doing it would be
a guy who did it for himself in the mirror each day. Well, waking up w a hangover the next day, it
was a true ‘what the hell have I done’ moment for me. I saw Frank at the pool and when he saw me he
started to laugh. He said, ‘What does
your head remind me of?” and he paused and then he said, “An Orbus’ so for
Frank, the rest of the tour, I was Orbus. I said that to say this.
Frank, who like to get ‘herbed
up’ found out that I had acquired some
local ‘herb’ and at the show that night, he said to me, ‘Orbus, I hear you got
some stuff, what room are you in?” I
said something like 712, but Frank was on it as he called bulls- - t, “There’s
only 6 floors in this hotel. Orbus tell me what room you’re in or I’ll kick
every door down looking for you” Needless to say I did, and we had a great time
after the show that night in my room, with all the boys. In fact, my head was shaved before our first
show and I got a bit sunburned so someone suggested I asked the local doctor
for something for the pain and the guy reaches into his bag, pulls out a
handful of what I later found out was Valium so that night we had a great
party. Frank found out about these too so I had to share. Hope this makes sense.
*Fazil Dean (a relative to Jeet Singh) promoted some cards around southern Ontario in the early 80s
-Tim
The questions were posed by fans (names redacted) and in a few cases paraphrased. Note the answers are from several years ago when discussing 'current' wrestling.
In Part II Tim talks Wahoo, Valentine, Ole, The Sheik pulls scissors in Belleville, Bullwhip Johnson, George Cannon, Bookers, and more.
Part II
Pics and images mapleleafwrestling.com collection.
The Piper-Von Hess from Griff's collection
Tim as Assassin in Scarboro top two pics, and Assassin posed - Tim Gerrard collection
Tim as Assassin in Scarboro bottom two sent to me years ago, maybe my pal Scott, maybe Kevin Bazkur? Todd Cummer? If you did please drop me a note.
